Dumelang speaks

| Friday April 23, 2010 00:00

 

Mmegi - You are a private guy. How do you spend most of your free time?

Saleshando - Yes I am a private guy and I know some people like to say that to show that I am not at ease with what in politics are referred to as the masses.

Mmegi: What would be the book that you would call recommended reading?

Saleshando: It's a book that I read recently e bidiwa 'Its Our Turn To Eat' written by a lady called Michela Wrong. It's the story of a whistle blower in Kenya.

Mmegi: And who are your favourite thinkers? You are an economist by training.

Saleshando: A chap called Joseph Eugene Stiglitz, an American economist and a professor at Columbia University. His analysis of how the World Bank operates, the issue of globalisation, the future of Africa.

Karl Marx writings have a lot of sense. But of course there were limitations to those writings because they were done within an era.

Mmegi: We hear you are a Phikwe boy.

Saleshando: Well, born in Kanye, 13th September 1971.

I attended many schools.

This was because my dad (BCP President and Phikwe West MP, Gilson Saleshando) was moving around. At the time he was a civil servant. But we stabilised at Phikwe.

Mmegi: But then you moved to Gaborone.. So you had to take your own responsibility in your finances?

Saleshando: Yes. It's something that I grew up with in a way. My wife tells me that I am very careful with money.I'd always told her gore,'2010. There are two things I want to have: I want to buy a Range Rover Sport, and to attend the World Cup, so I started planning for them in 08.

Mmegi: I want to ask you about Botsalo Ntuane.

Saleshando: I met him as soon as I got to Phikwe.

Mmegi: Back to Gaborone. You get to UB. Did you have a good idea of what you wanted to become at that time that you entered UB?

Saleshando: When I was at secondary school BNF had active structures tsa political education. I became a member of the Botswana Socialist Youth. When I got to UB I continue with student activism. I joined MASS, which was then not a clandestine organisation. Kana ko St Joseph it was not allowed.

And at some stage I also joined MELS out of interest hela and their literature as well because Themba Joina had a lot more literature than the other guys.

But my majors at UB were Economics and Political Science.

Mmegi: So you have graduated. How do you approach the issue of employment?

Saleshando: No, I got a job quite easily. I joined FNB as a graduate trainee. But I never reached that level (manager) because of BDP, De Beers and Debswana.

Mmegi: But how did you leave FNB? Under what circumstances did you part ways with the bank?

Saleshando: Well I think part of it is public information. The BDP made a funding request. I was then at Corporate Finance. It meant that it had to come through our section. And I was assigned to deal with it. I made my own submission. At the time there was a problem ya gore...eh..BDP constitution e na le clause e e limitang borrowing to a certain percentage of their net value. I think it's meant to protect the party against indebtedness.But borrowing beyond that limit you needed some special resolution. So it was submitted without the necessary material.

It was then removed from my desk, after making all the other observations that 'you need to address this. You need this particular resolution'.

As it turned out the BDP received some P2.4 to P2.5 million through the bank's treasury division where I was not based. And this was not linked with the request for funding. Ke gore the request for funding. In the request for funding it was not stated mo go yone gore, 'legale madi a etla'. The two were not linked.

Mmegi: Put it into perspective gore what would you ordinarily do, and then who then would have to do what following what you did in this whole process.

Saleshando: Nna all I would do, I would make a recommendation to the people with discretionary powers. I didn't have discretionary powers. I would make a recommendation on 'should you lend?' or 'should you not lend? If we lend what would be the condition?' These were the recommendations I would make and then I would pass it on to a higher authority. They would then decide on what would they take and what would they not take on board of what I have said. Nna I had picked that clause from their (BDP) constitution.

Go re a go ntshiwa deposit or not again that is a decision for the higher management.

The final result was that there was information in the press about a donation that the BDP had received. And there was a massive investigation ya gore who could have leaked the information.

Mmegi: About the donation?

Saleshando: About the donation. Not about the application for funding. That one I had handled. So they went through my entire file ya gore in my handling of the application did I get to know about this other funding. And like I said the final decision was that it was not linked. The two were not linked. This was 1998. The BDP were under a lot of pressure. The possibility of a change of government was not too remote.

The opinion that Nchindo (De Beers and Debswana executive, BDP supporter) gave was that this thing will blow over. De Beers at the time thought of owning up to the fact that madi a teng a ne a tswa ko De Beers, but then the advice they were given was that Batswana ba lebala ka bonako it won't be an issue in the next election. And indeed I think by election time it was not an issue.

Mmegi: But this funding issue was linked to you somehow?

Saleshando: It was linked to me but I handled the BDP application. I knew something about BDP finances. But there was nothing linking me to the funding issue. But at the end of the day, they had to be seen to be doing something about it and I was the fall-guy.

Mmegi: You were sacrificed as a result?

Saleshando: Yeah I was. But I think, you know, it's a long time ago. Kana the matter was before court for a long time and it was not until 2004 that I had a settlement to the issue...from 98! One of the conditions was that it had to be confidential.

Mmegi: So you were bought to keep quiet because you made a killing?

Saleshando: I didn't make a killing I got a fair deal. At the time one had to weigh gore...kana this deal came in 2004-2005, this was about eight years later...do I continue to battle, fighting in the courts when reinstatement is not one of the things I am looking for? Because I was already in Parliament when they made this offer.

Mmegi: Let's look at you as an MP. In fact many people are now saying o a itse Saleshando has now introduced this new politics...the politics of good looks?

O tsile a tsenya diposter a di baya kwa le kwa.

Saleshando: Well there was a reason for doing that in 2004. One, I was contesting for the first time. So very few people knew who Dumelang Saleshando was. Remember 1998 BCP had just been formed. I am contesting on a BCP ticket. It is still a relatively unknown party. It has lost some of its stalwarts boPaul Rantao. It didn't do as well as expected ko ditlhophong. Not only that. I am also contesting against a senior cabinet minister. Strong in her own right, Mma Nasha (Margaret Nasha). So, how do you deal with this elephant? It appeared impossible. Kana tota in fact I didn't even want to contest the parliamentary seat. I wanted to go for Village, the council seat. I thought Village is more manageable. I can run around and talk to a lot of people, face to face. But ha e nna bopalamente it is a different. You can only meet a few people. So you have to get your face into their minds so that they can wonder 'But who is this Saleshando?'Once they do that you are in with one leg.

So, yes my posters had to be everywhere. Just get people asking questions - gore 'ke mang?'

Gore le ha ke appeara go sele, people can say, 'ahaa, it is that chap I saw on the poster'.

In the US it has been proven that it is difficult for you to be voted President if you are short. Height matters. Your looks also matter. Obama may not acknowledge it but if you took at the picture of his and that of McCain, the picture itself won him a number of votes ahead of McCain. But I don't think it has reached Botswana as yet. If it does, it will be for the political parties to adapt to it.

Mmegi: How much did it cost?

Saleshando: It was costly. I think I spent something in the region of P100,000. And because I was a newcomer I could not get corporate sponsorship. I think the total sponsorship that I got was no more than P15,000 the first time around. The second time around was different. Yes I had wanted to use about the same amount because then I knew that my track-record would also help. My performance in Parliament. But I revised it downwards after the BDP messed themselves up.

Mmegi: The BDP really gave you a constituency by doing what they did to Gomolemo Motswaledi.

Saleshando: Oh yes they did. But you know I couldn't completely forget about the campaign because then I also wanted to support my councillors. Remember I had won the constituency with only one council seat last time. I wanted a team of councillors. I was lucky this time around we got four councillors.

Mmegi: When you became an MP ultimately you helped BCP to be projected as a party on a national scale. Saleshando: I always knew that what I say is not about winning the vote mo palamenteng. I knew that I was talking to people outside. One thing which worked for me was that BDP e ne e nyatsa BCP thata. Ba ne ba ntshega. Go ne gotwe, 'o a bo o ntse o lositse another vote' But it was not about that. It was about whether I could reach out to the people.

Mmegi: ...but if someone were asked to shut their eyes and picture BCP it is your face they would see. Was it good to replace the party in the national conscience?

Saleshando - It was bad in that in some cases my opponents would tell my constituents that 'motho kana ha a bua, o bua a lebeletse phathi ya gagwe e seng lona. Because o maketa party. Mme ga a nke a itebaganya le dikgang tse di lebaganeng le lona'. Which was rubbish in a way because I think Gaborone Central voters are more sophisticated than that. But it was also bad ka gore e ne e dira gore party e appeare as a one-man organisation.

Mmegi: The recent success ya BCP. In what context should it be seen? Is it the failure ya BDP, or ya BNF, or purely success ya BCP or a kind of combination of all these?

Saleshando: It's a combination... But you know the disorganisation of the BNF normally does not benefit us.Because ga gona kgaolo epe e re e winneng re e tsaya ko go BNF. Le mo di-by electioneng fa kgaolo e ne e tshotswe ke BNF the chances of BCP taking it are lower than those of the BDP. Rona gantsi re kgona go wina from the BDP. What is becoming clear is that, everyone can see that there has been some disorganisation within the BNF, the BDP is able to scavenge out of that failure of the BNF more than we are. In fact while many people blame us gotwe we attack BNF too much even though we are both in the opposition. The fact is that if at all we are doing so, we are not reaping dividends from that. Batho ba ba tlhobogang BDP ke bone ba tlang ko go rona. Batho ba ba tlhobogang BNF ba felela ba tlhopha BDP.

Nna I think go swa ga BNF ga go re favoure. If the BDP continues scavenging it might last longer. It may be in our interests to have the BNF sort itself out. A lot of people think, no we are competing for space. It's not in our interest. Ha e swa we are worse off, the BDP is better off. Ha e e swa, it makes the removal of BDP that much more distant. If the BNF dies BDP is better off in the short term. But then I have a short-term interest, I don't want to be in opposition for 20 years, I want us to take over in the short-term and so I want BNF to revive itself.

Mmegi: Saleshando senior has already indicated that he won't be contesting parliament and party. How did he come to this conclusion? Did he consult you as his son or was it a party decision first and foremost?

Saleshando: Well, I had no input mo go tseyeng tshwetso eo ya gagwe. Ke utlwile hela as all other party members. But when I heard, I was in support.

The party was divided over that issue. What has not been made public is that he would have stepped down way earlier. Had the party held a congress ka 09.

O ne a ya ditlhophong as a compromise position.

So his mind had been made up.

But nna I was in support because he is not getting any younger. I think the landscape is changing.

Mmegi: In what way?

Saleshando: The landscape is changing in such a way that there is a whole lot of new expectations that were never there.

To give you an example, as a publicity secretary, I was the person who would advise him on how to engage with the media. I would advise to call a press conference.

Because he comes from a generation e e neng o kgona go surviva o le ko Phikwe o ipolotikela o sa bone a journalist for 12 months. There was a time when we had a long exchange over the phone because I wanted him to do this interview. O ne a sa bone botlhokwa jwa teng. Nna ke raya a e dira as party leader, gore he is the right person to convey the message of the party on this particular issue. But then again this is a man who started politics in the early 80s le boDabutha (veteran opposition politician the late Maitshwarelo Dabutha).

I think had he stayed longer this generational gap was also going to become more pronounced. The interview shifts to Dumelang Saleshando's candidacy for president.

Mmegi: Don't you see this as a potential problem in having you as a presidential candidate after your dad?

Saleshando: Re ntse re leka go tlhalosa gore, you know in a dynasty o fitlhela e le gore party e dumela gore it cannot exist without a particular name. E le gore ha go nna thata bare 'we need a Khama'.

Ko Pakistan go dumelwa gore 'we need a Bhutto'.

Mmegi: Maybe the Saleshandos are to the BCP what the Khamas are to the BDP.

Saleshando: I am not the only son. Go na le ba bangwe ba ba qualifyang go ka emela ditlhopho. If people feel gore re ka kgona hela ka mongwe wa bone then there is a problem. Nna ke tsaya gore in my case I think its because of what I have done in the last five to ten years. Remember I got into the party executive independent of him (Gilson Saleshando). I chose a constituency far from the one he represents. But I think the general voters even today, if I didn't have the qualifications to represent my constituency I think I would lose.

If I was to fall dead tomorrow and any of my younger brothers stood for the BCP presidency they would lose. But you cannot say if Tshekedi (Serowe North West MP, president's younger brother Tshekedi Khama) were to collapse dead tomorrow Anthony (Tshekedi's twin brother, Anthony Khama) would not win in Serowe. He would still win.

Mmegi: A re lebelele go kopana ga lona le BAM.

Saleshando: Each one us had to part with something. It was give-and-take. Ha nne re ba kometsa e ka bo re ba reetse hela ra re 'joenang'. But what occurred is that the BCP symbol will now change, it will be a new symbol. BCP ga e sa tlhole e le ya leeba, ke ya kgomo e tshwana. It's a hybrid. A compromise is a difficult thing, some people ba kgona go gana hela ba re 'nnyaa, we are not going to do that. We spent a lot of effort in developing this organisation and its symbols'. Because we understand that this big brother attitude e e neng re e rejecta mo BNF we would not want to repeat the same mo go ba bangwe.

Mmegi: What is your relationship le BNF? Saleshando: I think when we started those negotiations we thought it would be an easy thing. But it's never an easy thing.

Ha o lebelela fela, working with BAM, there has been a lot of concessions we have had to make with BAM mme go tsewa gore it's a small party. Kana when you look right now, BCP and BNF are more or less the same strength.

The difference in terms of total votes cast is about 2,000 to 3,000 voters. So we are talking about parties that have the same strength. And maybe that's what it had to take gore di kgone to respect each other.

We need cooperation. It's in both our interests. We need each other, but I think a total merger though desirable I don't think we will be going all out to get it. I think a working relationship is what we need to start with.

Mmegi: Relationship le Barata-Phathi. They are coming out and saying they will form a party but its major strategy would be to work with opposition parties. Have they met with you formally?

Saleshando: As a party, no engagement at the moment. But as individuals we have exchanged notes. I think on their own they will not have any major impact.